-
We're currently moving storage for avatars/attachments - please bear with us. We are migrating all files but some may not show temporarily. This may take 24-48 hours for all files to come across.
Sorry for any inconvenience! New attachments can be uploaded but it would be better to leave avatars for now as they could be overwritten as part of the migration.
UPDATE: This is moving slower than expected and will continue through the weekend.
Rodelero's PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
- Thread starter Rodelero
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #2
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
PES 2012 Impressions
These impressions are specifically focused at the game as played from a 1vCPU, 1v1, and 2v2 perspective, based on 75% finished code, which is around a month old, with a wide variety of teams. For those not interested in a long read, there is a brief summary at the bottom.
I’d like to thank Adam for providing this opportunity in the first place, without him, I’d be none PES the wiser about PES, and unable to bring you my impressions. In a strange sense, one of the most obvious things to say about my time with 2012 (in which I played a large number of games), is that I feel bereft just 5 hours after playing it last. It's a game which achieves things I've been waiting on for years. PES 2011 was the first game from PES this generation which made me sit up and take notice of the series again. It's a game with a tough outer shell, which turns off many on the outset with the huge array of bugs, lack of polish, lack of licenses, dodgy net code, and a lack of accessibility. If you can manage to get through that, you are rewarded by core gameplay which has a lot of depth, and while the frustrations never left, the gameplay for me trumped FIFA 11’s.
Gameplay
PES 2012 peels off that outer shell. The clumsiness is gone, and the lion's share of the bugs have too. The fluidity is frightening: it has managed to decant the essence of FIFA’s fluidity, and combine it with the depth that PES has always had. The movement system is packed with more depth than ever. Playing with tricky dribblers is astoundingly fun, and it's all done through the left stick and the trigger. It feels intuitive, and it really brings out the differences between players. You can feel clearly how each touch leads to the next. Making a more strenuous turn will make you struggle for the next, but get it right and you can see your player making tight, accurate touches to take you just inches around players.
PES has always excelled with this, but the massively improved responsiveness (which has not been achieved by removing realism), and the new one-on-one controls (activated through the right trigger) take it to a new level. This is where the true potential of 360 dribbling really shines through. The one-on-one video does the new mechanic no justice, but I’m assured that once you play it you’ll get it. It allows you to face up to a player, and to specifically attack the defender, seeking to wrongfoot him. There are a whole host of new animations to represent a defender being done, which all look fantastic. No longer do players stand there stupidly as they get torn apart, but react as it happens.
My only concern with the dribbling is that just occasionally it feels that some turns are a little over-slick, and players can in these moments move the ball around just a little too easily. This may be so because some animations still aren’t quite up to scratch, and thus some turns still feel strange.
The defensive side of this equation has been cranked up too, and once again a new use of the right trigger is the centre of it. It's simple, and it works. The right trigger puts you into a jockeying movement, which feels well balanced in terms of responsiveness, and using it in conjunction with X/A locks you into the ballcarrier. It's all balanced surprisingly well, and the battle between individual attackers and defenders is better than ever. It’s the first game for a long time which has managed to make defending feel right. In both 2010's FIFA and PES games, there is far too much emphasis on tackling. It's not that holding back isn't a feasible defensive strategy, it's that charging into tackles and heavily pressuring is far too effective.
PES finally has hit that sweet spot where you're constantly calculating the risk vs. reward. Go for the tackle and maybe get beaten. Hold back, and allow them closer to goal, hold strong and force them to make a move. Trying to go in for a tackle against the better dribblers, especially with your last line of defence, is close to suicidal - you have to treat the better dribblers with respect. When facing up to Messrs. Ronaldo and Messi, you have to treat them like they are superstars, and if you don't you may find yourself regretting it in horrible and often spectacularly embarrassing ways. It no longer feels that you can be pressured off the pitch. Pressure works for forcing people to make a move, or blocking off opportunities, but it is easier than ever to pull a move on a charging defender, taking simple touches to take it around them.
These moments are the highlights, whether it's you doing it, or someone doing it to you, or the CPU AI doing it to you, or you doing it to them: It looks great, it feels believable, and these become guaranteed exclamatory moments right up there with the goals. We recreated Adam's Marseille vs. Barcelona disaster (he lost 7-1, on 'Superstar' difficulty, which is the highest difficulty level above Top Player), and although none of us lost as badly as him, we were each treated to at least a few occasions of utter bewilderment at just what Barcelona could do to us. Again and again you feel utterly helpless as they scythe through your defence, often in ways remarkably reminiscent of United's Champions League final defeats.
They put together stunning passing moves – a couple of one-twos had my jaw wide open. It’s the stuff of Barcelona highlight videos, and it’s great to see that AI can be so exciting. If I have a serious concern, it’s that they seemed to have some mentality problems. In footballing terms, there were occasions where I just wasn’t sure whether the AI “wanted the win”. In 5 replications of the same match it seemed that (same team, mostly similar tactics) the way Barcelona played varied massively: In a couple of cases they were in “Rape & Pillage” mode, but in others they were relaxed, doing little more than enough to win.
To go back to defending, the way interceptions work has changed hugely. I don't know quite why it has taken this long (given that FIFA 11 and PES 2011 have this problem badly) to stop my players spindling on the spot while the ball more or less travels between their laces, but this relatively small change resonates throughout the game. It makes up for the lower reliance on tackling, and it radically balances how well throughballs work. Placing your players between the ballcarrier and his teammates is thoroughly effective and you have a serious chance of intercepting passes in close proximity. Your players no longer become horridly unresponsive – they do exactly what you want, which is to try to get to the ball. They may get it, they may not quite get there, or they may overstretch and see it fly between their legs, but every time, without fail, they try, and that’s what both FIFA and PES have needed for a while.
Ball physics have improved a lot, and this is something you sense all over the game, passing, crossing, and shooting (earlier builds had problematic shooting). The constant super-floaty mishit shots have disappeared altogether. You can also now get a lot more curve on the ball, whether that's due to the ball being mishit or an intentional curve. Crosses are just a tad over predictable in flight, and shots are maybe just a little too soft still, though you can definitely get some real power behind them now. Volleys are one of my only real bugbears with the shooting, and they still seem to have a tendency to try to swing around the ball, often swinging their leg horizontally where it could have been a straight pull back and shot. There were a couple of bicycle kicks too, and in both cases it seemed that the flight of the shot was far too flat to match the animation. The good work applied to the rest of shooting seems to have not been fully realised for volleys.
The real physical improvement is in Pro Evo 2012's collision system. I'm sure it's technically nowhere near as clever under-the-hood as FIFA's Player Impact Engine is, and I'm sure that if you look close enough you'll see some clipping here and there, but in the vast majority of cases the animations seem appropriate. It moves it into line with the physicality that FIFA has managed for the last few years, but it does so without forcing it on you at every moment. Physicality is part of the game, but it's just a part. Considering physicality was almost missing entirely from PES 2011, this is a welcome upgrade.
The refereeing is better, mainly due to improved collision detection, but they are still an area of major concern. The advantage rule has improved, but still calls up fouls when it should play on a little too often, and the amount of times cards are given after a break in play is minimal (I didn't see it myself but I was told these can now occur). The referees also seem to not give penalties for standing tackles - which really must be fixed before release, because I saw far too many blatant penalties not given, and it's the kind of thing which is fairly easily exploitable, as once they're in the box you seem to get away with anything if you keep on your feet.
The keepers are similar: generally solid, combining 2011's ability to accurately represent what the keeper would, and wouldn't get to, with (most of the) animations not being laughably bad anymore. More importantly, what happens when the keeper touches the ball is much more believable: they do catch more often (maybe not enough), and the parries are distributed much more safely. In PES 2011, I conceded more goals because of the keeper parrying it to the opponent than any other reason, but this happened just once over the many hours I played and watched.
There are scrappy goals, goals where you're desperately smashing the shoot button, and your opponent is smashing the clearance button, but they don't come freely. The physics of the ball colliding with players is an area which has improved greatly. It no longer feels like they are elastic collisions with the ball coming out at the same rate it went in, and this massively reduces the unpredictable and often unfair situations that arise too often in 2011. Unfortunately, in the build we were playing there were a few occasions where the keepers would have absolute howlers, failing to save things which would have been definite saves in the real world. These were clearly bugs, rather than design flaws. If these are solved then, PES 2012’s goalies will be pretty good.
Passing was an area I was intrigued to try as Konami had added the passing assistance bar in this year, which allows you to set the passing between 0, and 4 bars, 0 being the least assistance and 4 being the most. At 4, it feels similar to FIFA's assisted passing or PES's pre-2011 passing, where you press the pass, indicating who you want to pass to, and it does the rest. PES 2011's passing is probably around 2 bars in terms of assistance. Trying out the 0-bar setting was slightly disappointing, though it's quite possibly due to unfinished code. It's hard to describe - it certainly isn't like FIFA's manual in terms of the control you have. Sometimes it feels manual, and at other times it can clearly redirect your passes by quite severe angles to assist it to a teammate. I'd need a lot of time to explore quite what was going on, but right now it's either not working as intended, or it's not intended to be manual, because it still feels very different to what you get from the manual modifier. If that is their intention, then fine, but it would be nice if this was clarified.
Going back to 2 bars, and I suppose the best way to describe it is that it feels different to PES 2011, it's certainly been retweaked and retuned, and it will take some time to get used to again, but it feels mostly pretty good. It does have the occasional time where it misinterprets who you are trying to pass to quite badly, but these are once in a while and usually it's good at interpreting what you want to do. I do occasionally find it just a little over pingy. It’s not a crisis, but I would like to see it be made just slightly more awkward to string together quick/accurate passing combos, especially the 180-degree spinning passes which are still overly prominent.
PES 2012 Impressions
These impressions are specifically focused at the game as played from a 1vCPU, 1v1, and 2v2 perspective, based on 75% finished code, which is around a month old, with a wide variety of teams. For those not interested in a long read, there is a brief summary at the bottom.
I’d like to thank Adam for providing this opportunity in the first place, without him, I’d be none PES the wiser about PES, and unable to bring you my impressions. In a strange sense, one of the most obvious things to say about my time with 2012 (in which I played a large number of games), is that I feel bereft just 5 hours after playing it last. It's a game which achieves things I've been waiting on for years. PES 2011 was the first game from PES this generation which made me sit up and take notice of the series again. It's a game with a tough outer shell, which turns off many on the outset with the huge array of bugs, lack of polish, lack of licenses, dodgy net code, and a lack of accessibility. If you can manage to get through that, you are rewarded by core gameplay which has a lot of depth, and while the frustrations never left, the gameplay for me trumped FIFA 11’s.
Gameplay
PES 2012 peels off that outer shell. The clumsiness is gone, and the lion's share of the bugs have too. The fluidity is frightening: it has managed to decant the essence of FIFA’s fluidity, and combine it with the depth that PES has always had. The movement system is packed with more depth than ever. Playing with tricky dribblers is astoundingly fun, and it's all done through the left stick and the trigger. It feels intuitive, and it really brings out the differences between players. You can feel clearly how each touch leads to the next. Making a more strenuous turn will make you struggle for the next, but get it right and you can see your player making tight, accurate touches to take you just inches around players.
PES has always excelled with this, but the massively improved responsiveness (which has not been achieved by removing realism), and the new one-on-one controls (activated through the right trigger) take it to a new level. This is where the true potential of 360 dribbling really shines through. The one-on-one video does the new mechanic no justice, but I’m assured that once you play it you’ll get it. It allows you to face up to a player, and to specifically attack the defender, seeking to wrongfoot him. There are a whole host of new animations to represent a defender being done, which all look fantastic. No longer do players stand there stupidly as they get torn apart, but react as it happens.
My only concern with the dribbling is that just occasionally it feels that some turns are a little over-slick, and players can in these moments move the ball around just a little too easily. This may be so because some animations still aren’t quite up to scratch, and thus some turns still feel strange.
The defensive side of this equation has been cranked up too, and once again a new use of the right trigger is the centre of it. It's simple, and it works. The right trigger puts you into a jockeying movement, which feels well balanced in terms of responsiveness, and using it in conjunction with X/A locks you into the ballcarrier. It's all balanced surprisingly well, and the battle between individual attackers and defenders is better than ever. It’s the first game for a long time which has managed to make defending feel right. In both 2010's FIFA and PES games, there is far too much emphasis on tackling. It's not that holding back isn't a feasible defensive strategy, it's that charging into tackles and heavily pressuring is far too effective.
PES finally has hit that sweet spot where you're constantly calculating the risk vs. reward. Go for the tackle and maybe get beaten. Hold back, and allow them closer to goal, hold strong and force them to make a move. Trying to go in for a tackle against the better dribblers, especially with your last line of defence, is close to suicidal - you have to treat the better dribblers with respect. When facing up to Messrs. Ronaldo and Messi, you have to treat them like they are superstars, and if you don't you may find yourself regretting it in horrible and often spectacularly embarrassing ways. It no longer feels that you can be pressured off the pitch. Pressure works for forcing people to make a move, or blocking off opportunities, but it is easier than ever to pull a move on a charging defender, taking simple touches to take it around them.
These moments are the highlights, whether it's you doing it, or someone doing it to you, or the CPU AI doing it to you, or you doing it to them: It looks great, it feels believable, and these become guaranteed exclamatory moments right up there with the goals. We recreated Adam's Marseille vs. Barcelona disaster (he lost 7-1, on 'Superstar' difficulty, which is the highest difficulty level above Top Player), and although none of us lost as badly as him, we were each treated to at least a few occasions of utter bewilderment at just what Barcelona could do to us. Again and again you feel utterly helpless as they scythe through your defence, often in ways remarkably reminiscent of United's Champions League final defeats.
They put together stunning passing moves – a couple of one-twos had my jaw wide open. It’s the stuff of Barcelona highlight videos, and it’s great to see that AI can be so exciting. If I have a serious concern, it’s that they seemed to have some mentality problems. In footballing terms, there were occasions where I just wasn’t sure whether the AI “wanted the win”. In 5 replications of the same match it seemed that (same team, mostly similar tactics) the way Barcelona played varied massively: In a couple of cases they were in “Rape & Pillage” mode, but in others they were relaxed, doing little more than enough to win.
To go back to defending, the way interceptions work has changed hugely. I don't know quite why it has taken this long (given that FIFA 11 and PES 2011 have this problem badly) to stop my players spindling on the spot while the ball more or less travels between their laces, but this relatively small change resonates throughout the game. It makes up for the lower reliance on tackling, and it radically balances how well throughballs work. Placing your players between the ballcarrier and his teammates is thoroughly effective and you have a serious chance of intercepting passes in close proximity. Your players no longer become horridly unresponsive – they do exactly what you want, which is to try to get to the ball. They may get it, they may not quite get there, or they may overstretch and see it fly between their legs, but every time, without fail, they try, and that’s what both FIFA and PES have needed for a while.
Ball physics have improved a lot, and this is something you sense all over the game, passing, crossing, and shooting (earlier builds had problematic shooting). The constant super-floaty mishit shots have disappeared altogether. You can also now get a lot more curve on the ball, whether that's due to the ball being mishit or an intentional curve. Crosses are just a tad over predictable in flight, and shots are maybe just a little too soft still, though you can definitely get some real power behind them now. Volleys are one of my only real bugbears with the shooting, and they still seem to have a tendency to try to swing around the ball, often swinging their leg horizontally where it could have been a straight pull back and shot. There were a couple of bicycle kicks too, and in both cases it seemed that the flight of the shot was far too flat to match the animation. The good work applied to the rest of shooting seems to have not been fully realised for volleys.
The real physical improvement is in Pro Evo 2012's collision system. I'm sure it's technically nowhere near as clever under-the-hood as FIFA's Player Impact Engine is, and I'm sure that if you look close enough you'll see some clipping here and there, but in the vast majority of cases the animations seem appropriate. It moves it into line with the physicality that FIFA has managed for the last few years, but it does so without forcing it on you at every moment. Physicality is part of the game, but it's just a part. Considering physicality was almost missing entirely from PES 2011, this is a welcome upgrade.
The refereeing is better, mainly due to improved collision detection, but they are still an area of major concern. The advantage rule has improved, but still calls up fouls when it should play on a little too often, and the amount of times cards are given after a break in play is minimal (I didn't see it myself but I was told these can now occur). The referees also seem to not give penalties for standing tackles - which really must be fixed before release, because I saw far too many blatant penalties not given, and it's the kind of thing which is fairly easily exploitable, as once they're in the box you seem to get away with anything if you keep on your feet.
The keepers are similar: generally solid, combining 2011's ability to accurately represent what the keeper would, and wouldn't get to, with (most of the) animations not being laughably bad anymore. More importantly, what happens when the keeper touches the ball is much more believable: they do catch more often (maybe not enough), and the parries are distributed much more safely. In PES 2011, I conceded more goals because of the keeper parrying it to the opponent than any other reason, but this happened just once over the many hours I played and watched.
There are scrappy goals, goals where you're desperately smashing the shoot button, and your opponent is smashing the clearance button, but they don't come freely. The physics of the ball colliding with players is an area which has improved greatly. It no longer feels like they are elastic collisions with the ball coming out at the same rate it went in, and this massively reduces the unpredictable and often unfair situations that arise too often in 2011. Unfortunately, in the build we were playing there were a few occasions where the keepers would have absolute howlers, failing to save things which would have been definite saves in the real world. These were clearly bugs, rather than design flaws. If these are solved then, PES 2012’s goalies will be pretty good.
Passing was an area I was intrigued to try as Konami had added the passing assistance bar in this year, which allows you to set the passing between 0, and 4 bars, 0 being the least assistance and 4 being the most. At 4, it feels similar to FIFA's assisted passing or PES's pre-2011 passing, where you press the pass, indicating who you want to pass to, and it does the rest. PES 2011's passing is probably around 2 bars in terms of assistance. Trying out the 0-bar setting was slightly disappointing, though it's quite possibly due to unfinished code. It's hard to describe - it certainly isn't like FIFA's manual in terms of the control you have. Sometimes it feels manual, and at other times it can clearly redirect your passes by quite severe angles to assist it to a teammate. I'd need a lot of time to explore quite what was going on, but right now it's either not working as intended, or it's not intended to be manual, because it still feels very different to what you get from the manual modifier. If that is their intention, then fine, but it would be nice if this was clarified.
Going back to 2 bars, and I suppose the best way to describe it is that it feels different to PES 2011, it's certainly been retweaked and retuned, and it will take some time to get used to again, but it feels mostly pretty good. It does have the occasional time where it misinterprets who you are trying to pass to quite badly, but these are once in a while and usually it's good at interpreting what you want to do. I do occasionally find it just a little over pingy. It’s not a crisis, but I would like to see it be made just slightly more awkward to string together quick/accurate passing combos, especially the 180-degree spinning passes which are still overly prominent.
- Thread starter
- #3
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Artificial intelligence is one of Konami's biggest focuses for this game and it really shows. PES 2011's AI was advanced, and deep, but had issues which lead to frustration all round. There were far too many occasions where player’s brains would go missing, and it was a struggle to get players to go forward (which lead to the calls for the Player Run button). Konami have come out with a lot of videos trying to show off what it can do, but the videos do it little justice. It's not just about the overlapping runs, the dummy runs, the zonal defence, or the diagonal runs - which were all things PES 2011 did do - it's about the way they are happening all over the pitch in an ultra-convincing manner. Your own team is now something which facilitates your football, rather than works against you, and again and again I found my team having ideas which opened doors for my attacks. The attacks you can build, especially with the better teams, are superb, and more complex than anything I've ever seen in a game. The best way to sum it up is awareness – your team seems completely aware of what is going on around them.
The same thing applies to the defensive AI. Where PES 2011’s AI would all too often have a brain-freeze, or neglect a dangerous run, 2012’s very rarely let me down. In almost every case I felt at fault for the goals I conceded. You now see them working to cover runs, and block off passes – and every man on the pitch feels involved, there is a noticeable drop in the amount of ball watching for instance. In one game where I had instructed my team to defend deep but pressure heavily, I watched as one of my strikers, of his own accord, worked with me to pressure their defence. I was blocking off passes, and my striker, as opposed to doing what ‘pressure’ has all too often meant in previous football games (charge in for the tackle), was actually intending to block opportunities off, rather than just go in for the tackle. Together we managed to block off a handful of passes like this and were unlucky not to receive a break from them.
That is of course helped greatly by the ability to select players with the right stick, finally. While the player selection seemed a lot better than PES 2011's anyway (not difficult), being able to swap to the defender I wanted to control makes a massive difference to how I can defend. No longer do I have to watch in fear as my defenders don't mark a man charging into the box - because in the rare case that they don't pick up a man, I can sort it myself. It's good at working out which player you want to select too, but it does hit a bit of a wall when you try to select someone a long way away from the play (especially when playing 2 on 2 this is the kind of thing you may want to do a lot in attack), and it seems to just stop you at that point. When pointing at a player on the other side of the pitch it would instead select a player in the opposite direction who was closer to the ball.
As for the other off-the-ball controls, I have to reiterate what has been said about these from earlier playtests: they are not going to break the game nor obliterate personality. The manual system is almost unusable because it's so difficult to not only coordinate both analogue sticks but keep your eye on both players at once. I don't think it's necessary for the game, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to break it either. Where it does come in handy is the set pieces, which have all had some changes this year. The off the ball controls do what you would expect, but they aren't so razor accurate that they seem cheap, nor do the AI just sit idly by while your player makes a move.
Throw-ins are much less clumsy and sluggish, and the same can be said for the goalkeepers’ throwing, which allow you to distribute the ball quickly as you'd expect. Free kicks are mostly the same, though the amount of power that you get seems to have been tweaked a lot: you need to put a lot more power in to get an equivalent amount of distance from PES 2011. This means that you can get the ball up and over, or around the wall even for the shorter free kicks. Goalkeepers also seem to have more variety in where they stand (though this seemed half bugged when I played, the keeper often strolled weirdly out of position and off his line) and this means that you have opportunities to hit the ball into the far corner as well as the near corner.
Penalties have been moved back to the older style system, and while they are nothing special they are now not complete crap either. It needs a bit of tweaking in terms of the risk/reward with the power bar, and there was some strange bug with the keeper movement across the line, but it is no longer the horror show of PES 2011. The shot physics are probably at their worst on the shootout – it’s fortunate that they are such a minor area of the game.
The only major disappointment, the only thing which seems to have barely changed so far, was the stamina model, which felt no different from PES 2011’s very weak version.
Non-Gameplay
Graphically this game still doesn't get anywhere close to what we see in other genres all the time. Close up it's reasonable, but far away it looks like little more than an HD version of a last generation title, even if players seem more detailed than before from further away. It's not bad enough to affect gameplay, but it's not much better than that at this stage. This is not a game which excels on the aesthetics.
There is a new array of cameras and most people will be able to find one they like this year. Customisation options for them are few and far between though. A new blimp camera gives you an extremely-far out view of the entire pitch, while a 'pitch-side' camera gives you a wide camera with little to no pan. An option, presumably for spectating, has been added which gives you the live broadcast experience, zooming in on players on the wing as you see on TV. Perhaps most importantly, the 'Wide' camera is a little further out now, and it makes it feel slightly less claustrophobic, though radar use is still necessary.
The team management screens which were so brilliant from PES 2011 return in almost all their glory, a few small changes have been made though, mostly for the better. The system has been reshuffled slightly, some things have gone and others have appeared. From what I could see, the 'Strategy', 'Link Feints', 'Management Edit', and 'Formation' parts of the bottom menu had gone. The link feints option has moved to a different area of the menus, but the others have been replaced entirely by 4 completely separate tactical setups that you can edit and then change to on the fly. So, you can set up 4 separate Formation/'Team Style' combinations, and then use these as and when you want. I didn't actually get into doing this myself, but I think it will give people everything they are looking for. Using these on-the-fly setups, and the mentality options, you should be able to adjust your team quickly and easily mid game.
The rest of the interface has changed a fair bit, the most startling change being that the hexagons have disappeared, and this is one of the only changes which Konami have made which I feel is for the worse. Though the hexagons are not ideal in PES 2011 due to the size and clarity, I simply don't find it easier to compare these letters. It would help if the letters were coloured in a relative way, so that when comparing teams the bits where your team was better would be coloured in shades of green, and worse in shades of red (and the same for comparing players), but it's still a fairly quick way of comparing stats. A lot of the interface has been compacted so that more of it can be seen more quickly.
A nice thing for those who play a lot of local multiplayer is the way that different data setups can be saved. Instead of the nightmare in 2011, you can now have up to 10 different player data slots, which you can cycle through on the select-sides screen. These data sets contain the players' control options, assistance options, link feints, and so on. These auto save and load, and so will likely save local-multiplayer fanatics (and I suspect there may be more of these this year than for a long time) a lot of time and annoyance.
Conclusion
I hope that my enthusiasm for this title comes through in this piece, because that's what I really feel about it. I cannot wait to play it again, and can't wait to see what the rest of the community thinks. I have no problem saying it: for me, this is the best football game I've ever played. That shouldn't be a massive statement, but given how things have gone since PES5 and 6, it is. People often say it's all about gameplay, and if it is, then PES 2012 is doing very well indeed. It’s not flawless, I have a few criticisms now, and I’m sure in a few months time there will be a long list of very justified criticisms, and areas where it can be improved. But those criticisms will be ones about a seriously good football game, and trying to improve it to be a brilliant one.
Though there are certainly issues with gameplay, they are much smaller, in both number and magnitude, than the issues which hurt FIFA 11 and PES 2011. It's the first game which has delivered on the potential of 360 dribbling. It's the first game in a long time to get the defensive balance, in terms of tackling vs. interception and charging in vs. holding back. It balances player archetypes better than ever before: The new collision physics allow strength to mean something again, while the removal of the catch-up bugs allow the speedsters to stretch their opponents. The AI allows intelligent players to be highlighted, and the dribbling mechanics allow technically gifted players their moment too.
Time will tell whether the game has an overall balance - I'd be very wary to say that a game is balanced without playing it for a much longer length of time - but nothing stuck out at me so far. Certainly, the most major issues with PES 2011's balance seem to be solved: passing across goal, and throughballs are both much less easy thanks to the interception mechanics. Will people find a way to break this game? I sincerely hope not.
In terms of the core gameplay, Konami has delivered in a way which they haven't for half a decade. Whether the net code will mean this extends fully to online, I do not know. What Football Life has in store, I do not know. What I do know is that this game has both surprised me and reinvigorated me. For the first time what feels like an age, I’m really excited for a football game again.
Quick Summary
It’s always difficult, and dangerous to try to estimate what people will feel about a game, especially when playing something pre release, but this is something which was quite popular when I did it for a FIFA 12 preview. This is a rough estimation of how people will feel about PES 2012 given how they felt about the previous years’ games.
Someone who is still enjoying PES 2011
Will likely fall in love with PES 2012
Someone who is finding PES 2011 Frustrating
Will probably find that most of the things they have found frustrating have disappeared, at least in part, and that PES 2012 gives them a lot more of what they like about PES 2011, without anywhere near as much of what they dislike.
Someone who is on the fence between FIFA 11 and PES 2011
I suspect that this game may well make their mind up for them in PES 2012’s favour. At least in core gameplay mechanics, I think it’s moved quite firmly ahead of FIFA, and a lot of the previous stumbling blocks have been dealt with.
Someone who prefers FIFA 11 to PES 2011
I would guess that PES may not have done enough in the right areas to swap their allegiance, but I think it may become more obvious what those who rave about PES are raving about. It doesn’t quite matchup with FIFA’s fluidity, and is still a fair chunk behind it’s animation quality, but it’s made a big step in this area which is important to a lot of people.
Someone who loves FIFA 11, and loathes PES 2011
Will likely not find their minds changed that much. They may find bits and bobs that they like, but I suspect little more than that.
Point-By-Point
Finally, this is a quick breakdown of the main areas I experienced, and how I think they hold up.
EXCELLENT (better than any other football game to date)
Team AI
Dribbling
Interceptions
Team management screens
Player/Team individuality
Responsiveness
VERY GOOD (Could be better, but a real highlight in the game)
Ball Physics
CPU AI
Passing
GOOD (Not a letdown, but clear room for improvement)
Collision
Physics
Shooting
Free-kicks & Throw-Ins
Off-the-ball controls
Animations
Cameras
SOLID (Mostly fine, but a few issues with these are quite damaging)
Goalkeepers
Referees
Atmosphere/Crowd
PASSABLE (Not much better than the bare minimum, acceptable, but not much more)
Penalties
Match stamina model
POOR (Areas where the game is being severely let down)
Graphics
Commentary
Artificial intelligence is one of Konami's biggest focuses for this game and it really shows. PES 2011's AI was advanced, and deep, but had issues which lead to frustration all round. There were far too many occasions where player’s brains would go missing, and it was a struggle to get players to go forward (which lead to the calls for the Player Run button). Konami have come out with a lot of videos trying to show off what it can do, but the videos do it little justice. It's not just about the overlapping runs, the dummy runs, the zonal defence, or the diagonal runs - which were all things PES 2011 did do - it's about the way they are happening all over the pitch in an ultra-convincing manner. Your own team is now something which facilitates your football, rather than works against you, and again and again I found my team having ideas which opened doors for my attacks. The attacks you can build, especially with the better teams, are superb, and more complex than anything I've ever seen in a game. The best way to sum it up is awareness – your team seems completely aware of what is going on around them.
The same thing applies to the defensive AI. Where PES 2011’s AI would all too often have a brain-freeze, or neglect a dangerous run, 2012’s very rarely let me down. In almost every case I felt at fault for the goals I conceded. You now see them working to cover runs, and block off passes – and every man on the pitch feels involved, there is a noticeable drop in the amount of ball watching for instance. In one game where I had instructed my team to defend deep but pressure heavily, I watched as one of my strikers, of his own accord, worked with me to pressure their defence. I was blocking off passes, and my striker, as opposed to doing what ‘pressure’ has all too often meant in previous football games (charge in for the tackle), was actually intending to block opportunities off, rather than just go in for the tackle. Together we managed to block off a handful of passes like this and were unlucky not to receive a break from them.
That is of course helped greatly by the ability to select players with the right stick, finally. While the player selection seemed a lot better than PES 2011's anyway (not difficult), being able to swap to the defender I wanted to control makes a massive difference to how I can defend. No longer do I have to watch in fear as my defenders don't mark a man charging into the box - because in the rare case that they don't pick up a man, I can sort it myself. It's good at working out which player you want to select too, but it does hit a bit of a wall when you try to select someone a long way away from the play (especially when playing 2 on 2 this is the kind of thing you may want to do a lot in attack), and it seems to just stop you at that point. When pointing at a player on the other side of the pitch it would instead select a player in the opposite direction who was closer to the ball.
As for the other off-the-ball controls, I have to reiterate what has been said about these from earlier playtests: they are not going to break the game nor obliterate personality. The manual system is almost unusable because it's so difficult to not only coordinate both analogue sticks but keep your eye on both players at once. I don't think it's necessary for the game, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to break it either. Where it does come in handy is the set pieces, which have all had some changes this year. The off the ball controls do what you would expect, but they aren't so razor accurate that they seem cheap, nor do the AI just sit idly by while your player makes a move.
Throw-ins are much less clumsy and sluggish, and the same can be said for the goalkeepers’ throwing, which allow you to distribute the ball quickly as you'd expect. Free kicks are mostly the same, though the amount of power that you get seems to have been tweaked a lot: you need to put a lot more power in to get an equivalent amount of distance from PES 2011. This means that you can get the ball up and over, or around the wall even for the shorter free kicks. Goalkeepers also seem to have more variety in where they stand (though this seemed half bugged when I played, the keeper often strolled weirdly out of position and off his line) and this means that you have opportunities to hit the ball into the far corner as well as the near corner.
Penalties have been moved back to the older style system, and while they are nothing special they are now not complete crap either. It needs a bit of tweaking in terms of the risk/reward with the power bar, and there was some strange bug with the keeper movement across the line, but it is no longer the horror show of PES 2011. The shot physics are probably at their worst on the shootout – it’s fortunate that they are such a minor area of the game.
The only major disappointment, the only thing which seems to have barely changed so far, was the stamina model, which felt no different from PES 2011’s very weak version.
Non-Gameplay
Graphically this game still doesn't get anywhere close to what we see in other genres all the time. Close up it's reasonable, but far away it looks like little more than an HD version of a last generation title, even if players seem more detailed than before from further away. It's not bad enough to affect gameplay, but it's not much better than that at this stage. This is not a game which excels on the aesthetics.
There is a new array of cameras and most people will be able to find one they like this year. Customisation options for them are few and far between though. A new blimp camera gives you an extremely-far out view of the entire pitch, while a 'pitch-side' camera gives you a wide camera with little to no pan. An option, presumably for spectating, has been added which gives you the live broadcast experience, zooming in on players on the wing as you see on TV. Perhaps most importantly, the 'Wide' camera is a little further out now, and it makes it feel slightly less claustrophobic, though radar use is still necessary.
The team management screens which were so brilliant from PES 2011 return in almost all their glory, a few small changes have been made though, mostly for the better. The system has been reshuffled slightly, some things have gone and others have appeared. From what I could see, the 'Strategy', 'Link Feints', 'Management Edit', and 'Formation' parts of the bottom menu had gone. The link feints option has moved to a different area of the menus, but the others have been replaced entirely by 4 completely separate tactical setups that you can edit and then change to on the fly. So, you can set up 4 separate Formation/'Team Style' combinations, and then use these as and when you want. I didn't actually get into doing this myself, but I think it will give people everything they are looking for. Using these on-the-fly setups, and the mentality options, you should be able to adjust your team quickly and easily mid game.
The rest of the interface has changed a fair bit, the most startling change being that the hexagons have disappeared, and this is one of the only changes which Konami have made which I feel is for the worse. Though the hexagons are not ideal in PES 2011 due to the size and clarity, I simply don't find it easier to compare these letters. It would help if the letters were coloured in a relative way, so that when comparing teams the bits where your team was better would be coloured in shades of green, and worse in shades of red (and the same for comparing players), but it's still a fairly quick way of comparing stats. A lot of the interface has been compacted so that more of it can be seen more quickly.
A nice thing for those who play a lot of local multiplayer is the way that different data setups can be saved. Instead of the nightmare in 2011, you can now have up to 10 different player data slots, which you can cycle through on the select-sides screen. These data sets contain the players' control options, assistance options, link feints, and so on. These auto save and load, and so will likely save local-multiplayer fanatics (and I suspect there may be more of these this year than for a long time) a lot of time and annoyance.
Conclusion
I hope that my enthusiasm for this title comes through in this piece, because that's what I really feel about it. I cannot wait to play it again, and can't wait to see what the rest of the community thinks. I have no problem saying it: for me, this is the best football game I've ever played. That shouldn't be a massive statement, but given how things have gone since PES5 and 6, it is. People often say it's all about gameplay, and if it is, then PES 2012 is doing very well indeed. It’s not flawless, I have a few criticisms now, and I’m sure in a few months time there will be a long list of very justified criticisms, and areas where it can be improved. But those criticisms will be ones about a seriously good football game, and trying to improve it to be a brilliant one.
Though there are certainly issues with gameplay, they are much smaller, in both number and magnitude, than the issues which hurt FIFA 11 and PES 2011. It's the first game which has delivered on the potential of 360 dribbling. It's the first game in a long time to get the defensive balance, in terms of tackling vs. interception and charging in vs. holding back. It balances player archetypes better than ever before: The new collision physics allow strength to mean something again, while the removal of the catch-up bugs allow the speedsters to stretch their opponents. The AI allows intelligent players to be highlighted, and the dribbling mechanics allow technically gifted players their moment too.
Time will tell whether the game has an overall balance - I'd be very wary to say that a game is balanced without playing it for a much longer length of time - but nothing stuck out at me so far. Certainly, the most major issues with PES 2011's balance seem to be solved: passing across goal, and throughballs are both much less easy thanks to the interception mechanics. Will people find a way to break this game? I sincerely hope not.
In terms of the core gameplay, Konami has delivered in a way which they haven't for half a decade. Whether the net code will mean this extends fully to online, I do not know. What Football Life has in store, I do not know. What I do know is that this game has both surprised me and reinvigorated me. For the first time what feels like an age, I’m really excited for a football game again.
Quick Summary
It’s always difficult, and dangerous to try to estimate what people will feel about a game, especially when playing something pre release, but this is something which was quite popular when I did it for a FIFA 12 preview. This is a rough estimation of how people will feel about PES 2012 given how they felt about the previous years’ games.
Someone who is still enjoying PES 2011
Will likely fall in love with PES 2012
Someone who is finding PES 2011 Frustrating
Will probably find that most of the things they have found frustrating have disappeared, at least in part, and that PES 2012 gives them a lot more of what they like about PES 2011, without anywhere near as much of what they dislike.
Someone who is on the fence between FIFA 11 and PES 2011
I suspect that this game may well make their mind up for them in PES 2012’s favour. At least in core gameplay mechanics, I think it’s moved quite firmly ahead of FIFA, and a lot of the previous stumbling blocks have been dealt with.
Someone who prefers FIFA 11 to PES 2011
I would guess that PES may not have done enough in the right areas to swap their allegiance, but I think it may become more obvious what those who rave about PES are raving about. It doesn’t quite matchup with FIFA’s fluidity, and is still a fair chunk behind it’s animation quality, but it’s made a big step in this area which is important to a lot of people.
Someone who loves FIFA 11, and loathes PES 2011
Will likely not find their minds changed that much. They may find bits and bobs that they like, but I suspect little more than that.
Point-By-Point
Finally, this is a quick breakdown of the main areas I experienced, and how I think they hold up.
EXCELLENT (better than any other football game to date)
Team AI
Dribbling
Interceptions
Team management screens
Player/Team individuality
Responsiveness
VERY GOOD (Could be better, but a real highlight in the game)
Ball Physics
CPU AI
Passing
GOOD (Not a letdown, but clear room for improvement)
Collision
Physics
Shooting
Free-kicks & Throw-Ins
Off-the-ball controls
Animations
Cameras
SOLID (Mostly fine, but a few issues with these are quite damaging)
Goalkeepers
Referees
Atmosphere/Crowd
PASSABLE (Not much better than the bare minimum, acceptable, but not much more)
Penalties
Match stamina model
POOR (Areas where the game is being severely let down)
Graphics
Commentary
Last edited:
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Great read, can't wait for Rom's opinion.
Demo can't come soon enough.
Great read, can't wait for Rom's opinion. Demo can't come soon enough.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Thank you so much for the review Rod. I can't wait for Rom's review, but I'm sure it will be more of the same. I want this game NOW.
Thank you so much for the review Rod. I can't wait for Rom's review, but I'm sure it will be more of the same. I want this game NOW.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Fantastic write-up. The graphics being on the "poor" zone is due to the "FIFA" flashy effect me thinks.
Fantastic write-up. The graphics being on the "poor" zone is due to the "FIFA" flashy effect me thinks.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Great preview,really detailed
Rodelero, remember, if pes 2011 will not be the best football game ever made some people will say you are biased
i warned you
p.s. just joking
Great preview,really detailed
Rodelero, remember, if pes 2011 will not be the best football game ever made some people will say you are biased
i warned you
p.s. just joking
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Fantastic read, very well written and seemingly balanced.
I see you noted that physicality is a lot more prevalent, hows that implemented? Were stronger players winning more tussles & 50/50s, or did you find it possible to hold the ball up with stockier players?
Cheers Rod
Fantastic read, very well written and seemingly balanced.
I see you noted that physicality is a lot more prevalent, hows that implemented? Were stronger players winning more tussles & 50/50s, or did you find it possible to hold the ball up with stockier players?
Cheers Rod
nerf
Forming triangles
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
I hope it really is as good as you make it sound! Always quite cautious about glowing previews. Looking forward to the demo though.
I hope it really is as good as you make it sound! Always quite cautious about glowing previews. Looking forward to the demo though.
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Oh, and assisted passing worried me somewhat. First time I'd read about it, did you receive any indication from Konami about how it'd factor in online? As long '2' is the default it'll be fine, but if you're allowed the choice naturally everyone will gravitate towards '4' unfortunately.
Oh, and assisted passing worried me somewhat. First time I'd read about it, did you receive any indication from Konami about how it'd factor in online? As long '2' is the default it'll be fine, but if you're allowed the choice naturally everyone will gravitate towards '4' unfortunately.
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Great work rodelero, i trust a lot your impressions as well as romagnoli's. It's very well written and structured and the community owes you a big thanks for it.
I like the soundof many many things, but still have 2 complaintswith the 2011 game that are unadressed or at least not commented.
The first one is ball control. It sems it's to good overall, to precise and that's what sometimes allow pingpongy plays. Is there anything done to it, or did you feltit was exactly as in 2011?
The other thing is ball control while running with the ball. Do worse players misskick a little the ball when running or is any paced player allowed to runfull pelt with perfect precise control?
Those are 2 things that worry me a little because they make the players too accurate and allow for too pingpongy plays that fustrate me, even if it's me who does them.
That is all, and again thanks for the recap, i was paciently waiting for people like you to post impressions. Thanks for the good work.
Great work rodelero, i trust a lot your impressions as well as romagnoli's. It's very well written and structured and the community owes you a big thanks for it.
I like the soundof many many things, but still have 2 complaintswith the 2011 game that are unadressed or at least not commented.
The first one is ball control. It sems it's to good overall, to precise and that's what sometimes allow pingpongy plays. Is there anything done to it, or did you feltit was exactly as in 2011?
The other thing is ball control while running with the ball. Do worse players misskick a little the ball when running or is any paced player allowed to runfull pelt with perfect precise control?
Those are 2 things that worry me a little because they make the players too accurate and allow for too pingpongy plays that fustrate me, even if it's me who does them.
That is all, and again thanks for the recap, i was paciently waiting for people like you to post impressions. Thanks for the good work.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
same as fifa but i think it will be set at 2, default
like game speed is set at defaul, 0
same as fifa but i think it will be set at 2, default
like game speed is set at defaul, 0
- Thread starter
- #16
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
In both cases I think it's pretty similar and I did actually intend to write about the first touch (this is the issue with just writing things - things get missed). Like I said with the dribbling being just a little overslick at time to time, the same goes for the first touch really. It's a case where, like with the passing and dribbling, they are simulating a difficult ball coming in, but it's just a bit soft in how it punishes you in those situations.
PES 2012 is still prone to a bit of pingyness. Less than PES 2011, less than FIFA 11, but, it's still there.
I'm pretty sure that 4 was the default. I'm not sure it will be overpowered in the same sense FIFA's assisted passing is - certainly I hope it isn't because I'm quite bored of moaning about assistance balancing. I'm not particularly worried with this one - though I think 2 will almost certainly be more effective than 0 bars.
Generally though, I didn't get anywhere near enough playtime to know with the balance, as I played with 2 bars most and 0 bars a bit.
In both cases I think it's pretty similar and I did actually intend to write about the first touch (this is the issue with just writing things - things get missed). Like I said with the dribbling being just a little overslick at time to time, the same goes for the first touch really. It's a case where, like with the passing and dribbling, they are simulating a difficult ball coming in, but it's just a bit soft in how it punishes you in those situations.
PES 2012 is still prone to a bit of pingyness. Less than PES 2011, less than FIFA 11, but, it's still there.
I'm pretty sure that 4 was the default. I'm not sure it will be overpowered in the same sense FIFA's assisted passing is - certainly I hope it isn't because I'm quite bored of moaning about assistance balancing. I'm not particularly worried with this one - though I think 2 will almost certainly be more effective than 0 bars.
Generally though, I didn't get anywhere near enough playtime to know with the balance, as I played with 2 bars most and 0 bars a bit.
Last edited:
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Fantastic write up mate. Thanks for taking the time to give a comprehensive and detailed review.
Regarding the curve - do you mean on passing or also on shooting? I note that Konami said they were improving shooting to take into effect ball position, foot position, timing etc. Having played FIFA World Cup heavily the last couple of weeks, it's quite clear to see that the ball in that game moves realistically depending on those factors. As much as I love the feeling you get from hitting a shot on PES (feels like you are connecting yourself sometimes), I still found the ball moved in a straight line too much. Rarely any bouncing, dipping, swerving, curl etc. I hope this is now evident in PES 12 shooting, even if it's only subtle
p.s. Physicality was there in PES 11 - if you watch closely there's some tussles going on, but perhaps it's more clear to see now
great stuff!
Fantastic write up mate. Thanks for taking the time to give a comprehensive and detailed review.
Regarding the curve - do you mean on passing or also on shooting? I note that Konami said they were improving shooting to take into effect ball position, foot position, timing etc. Having played FIFA World Cup heavily the last couple of weeks, it's quite clear to see that the ball in that game moves realistically depending on those factors. As much as I love the feeling you get from hitting a shot on PES (feels like you are connecting yourself sometimes), I still found the ball moved in a straight line too much. Rarely any bouncing, dipping, swerving, curl etc. I hope this is now evident in PES 12 shooting, even if it's only subtle
p.s. Physicality was there in PES 11 - if you watch closely there's some tussles going on, but perhaps it's more clear to see now
great stuff!
- Thread starter
- #18
amuroray
League 2
- 16 August 2010
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
really good write up.
So its alot more fluid?no more slowwwwwwwwww turns?
really good write up.
So its alot more fluid?no more slowwwwwwwwww turns?
Simcut
BF3 Addict
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Brilliant review of the playtest man, thank you.
Brilliant review of the playtest man, thank you.
gameklip
footy klip maestro
- 25 August 2006
- Team
- Tottenham Hotspur
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Rod, that's a fantastic preview mate. I was always getting both games but i'm more excited for PES2012 now. Seems i'll be playing it longer just for the passing and movement (note to EA: that's the bread and butter of football).
Rod, that's a fantastic preview mate. I was always getting both games but i'm more excited for PES2012 now. Seems i'll be playing it longer just for the passing and movement (note to EA: that's the bread and butter of football).
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Thanks That sounds really good. Always love reading your unbiased write ups 
Thanks
That sounds really good. Always love reading your unbiased write ups CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
P.S. Did anyone try some R2 shots to see if they curl?
P.S. Did anyone try some R2 shots to see if they curl?
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
R2 shooting is back to PS2 PES days. I scored a tasty curling effort off the far post with Oezil, I think.
P.S. Did anyone try some R2 shots to see if they curl?
R2 shooting is back to PS2 PES days. I scored a tasty curling effort off the far post with Oezil, I think.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
That's awesome, first time I'm hearing that I think!
That's awesome, first time I'm hearing that I think!
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
Got a lot done tonight but it's not gonna be until tomorrow evening I don't think. Maybe during the afternoon if work's quiet
I'm hoping to cover how the dribbling adds a lot more depth and nuance in 1v1 contests and how the balance of things greatly improves pressing (though without the stamina system that Pere Ubu has talked about before).
Got a lot done tonight but it's not gonna be until tomorrow evening I don't think. Maybe during the afternoon if work's quiet
I'm hoping to cover how the dribbling adds a lot more depth and nuance in 1v1 contests and how the balance of things greatly improves pressing (though without the stamina system that Pere Ubu has talked about before).
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
do you think stamina system will be improved or it's already much better than pes 2011?
rodelero says it's the same...
Got a lot done tonight but it's not gonna be until tomorrow evening I don't think. Maybe during the afternoon if work's quiet
I'm hoping to cover how the dribbling adds a lot more depth and nuance in 1v1 contests and how the balance of things greatly improves pressing (though without the stamina system that Pere Ubu has talked about before).
do you think stamina system will be improved or it's already much better than pes 2011?
rodelero says it's the same...
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Re: PES 2012 Playtest Impressions
The stamina is much the same. My point is about the other factors - responsiveness for example.
The stamina is much the same. My point is about the other factors - responsiveness for example.