English football quality - Remember this thread?

[Mauras]

Remember this "senseless" thread?

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29467

I do, unfortunately it was closed before a "fresh line" could be added, giving even more substance to the whole theory.

PS - Is it true Man Utd will really sell Ronaldo due to Rooney? If so i've already got my pick for the "dumbest sport bussiness decision of the XXI century so far".

 

[gerd]

Mauras, a "fatherly advice" from a neutral fan who tends to agree with you on this subject. Drop this subject. It's not the moment now.
This thread could be considered as gloating.
What are you gonna do if Portugal will loose against France, all the frustrated English fans (lots of them are) are gonna take their revenge on you...
The way you Portugese fans are reacting now, your team will not have many fans on this forum. Just an advice from somenbody who means well...

 

[RuneEdge]

PS - Is it true Man Utd will really sell Ronaldo due to Rooney? If so i've already got my pick for the "dumbest sport bussiness decision of the XXI century so far".

Who told you this? Ronaldo himself?

 

[Mauras]

.
What are you gonna do if Portugal will loose against France, all the frustrated English fans (lots of them are) are gonna take their revenge on you...
The way you Portugese fans are reacting now, your team will not have many fans on this forum. Just an advice from somenbody who means well...

I understand your view gerd but let me explain this to you:

1 - Only a blind hasn't realised how much fun I get from finding failing arguments, missing holes in the "brain product" ppl post and try to destroy it .

2 - I will never feel frustrated if Portugal loose. I'm not telling you I won't be sad (specially if it happens the same way it happened in Euro 2000) but I won't feel frustrated. Portugal is not like the remaining squads in these semis, we are not used to this. To us our players are already heroes, have already give us so much joy. Contrary to other countries the country faced this tournament with realistic expectations: we hoped to reach the second stage and that's it. That was the goal Scolari, the FPF and the portuguese set up (which was already better than the Korea disaster). Everything happening now is a "plus", a great joy.
Once we collect our almost certain defeat with France (for historic and realistic reasons) you'll see my point proven if you follow the news and see how these players will be greeted in Lisbon once they arrive.

3 - Some english fans know I and other portuguese feel this way so if Portugal loose tomorrow.. you'll see me here at the same speed you'd see me if we won (maybe faster because for me all this is already walking on clouds and unlike other countries with higher (realistic?) expectations I believe that if we loose against a recent previous WC like France who has "only" knocked out Spain and Brazil we will have lost against a true great and a likely WC.

4 - At this point we have 130 Million fans in South America (according to a poll from Brazil at least 130 million brazilians are with Portugal, Portugal has taken the spot on brazilian news and they are even selling portuguese stuff on the street). It's already an honour to have such a big crowd across the globe, coming from the country that rules in soccer ever. But I'm sure there are also many other fans that go for the "underdog factor" rooting for Portugal (less strong in countries eliminated by Portugal, which is acceptable, but for example all of Angola is with us although we had war with them. That shows you how portuguese are seen by ppl who really know them).

5 - And most important: Belgium? Loved SPA. Been there couple weeks ago to attend Portugal - Angola and SPA is one of the prettiest places I've seen and boy do you guys surprised me, saw some very pretty girls around that region .

 

[Mauras]

Who told you this? Ronaldo himself?

Someone told me on the coffee shop, so as you see it's not a good source .

Nevertheless after posting this I already saw some calmer comments by THE ogre, which makes me believe this will all calm down in a while.

Nevertheless it's public here since before the WC Ronaldo want's a move. He has complained about the same stupid reasons a lot complain: the weather . The true reason is that he likes the spanish league and his current girlfriend has family in spain.

 

[Gedtillo]

Loose - Set free, release.
Lose - Fail to gain or retain something.

It's just one "o", dude.

 

[Mauras]

lol thanks

 

[joostebrood]

I understand your view gerd but let me explain this to you:

1 - Only a blind hasn't realised how much fun I get from finding failing arguments, missing holes in the "brain product" ppl post and try to destroy it .

2 - I will never feel frustrated if Portugal loose. I'm not telling you I won't be sad (specially if it happens the same way it happened in Euro 2000) but I won't feel frustrated. Portugal is not like the remaining squads in these semis, we are not used to this. To us our players are already heroes, have already give us so much joy. Contrary to other countries the country faced this tournament with realistic expectations: we hoped to reach the second stage and that's it. That was the goal Scolari, the FPF and the portuguese set up (which was already better than the Korea disaster). Everything happening now is a "plus", a great joy.
Once we collect our almost certain defeat with France (for historic and realistic reasons) you'll see my point proven if you follow the news and see how these players will be greeted in Lisbon once they arrive.

3 - Some english fans know I and other portuguese feel this way so if Portugal loose tomorrow.. you'll see me here at the same speed you'd see me if we won (maybe faster because for me all this is already walking on clouds and unlike other countries with higher (realistic?) expectations I believe that if we loose against a recent previous WC like France who has "only" knocked out Spain and Brazil we will have lost against a true great and a likely WC.

4 - At this point we have 130 Million fans in South America (according to a poll from Brazil at least 130 million brazilians are with Portugal, Portugal has taken the spot on brazilian news and they are even selling portuguese stuff on the street). It's already an honour to have such a big crowd across the globe, coming from the country that rules in soccer ever. But I'm sure there are also many other fans that go for the "underdog factor" rooting for Portugal (less strong in countries eliminated by Portugal, which is acceptable, but for example all of Angola is with us although we had war with them. That shows you how portuguese are seen by ppl who really know them).

5 - And most important: Belgium? Loved SPA. Been there couple weeks ago to attend Portugal - Angola and SPA is one of the prettiest places I've seen and boy do you guys surprised me, saw some very pretty girls around that region .

I've rarely see someone talk as much shit as you do. Even myself man, I couldn't do that. That last line about Angola is very funny: "but for example all of Angola is with us although we had war with them. That shows you how portuguese are seen by ppl who really know them"
I love that bit. I think the Vietnamese have this same feeling with the USA. I also think they know them better now. You are a priceless guy. Very funny.

 

[Mauras]

I aim to please "buoooy"!


PS - I doubt Vietnamese root for USA on anything but it was a good efort as a comparison. You'll improve as time goes by.

 

[gungrave]

just one thing...if ronaldo goes to Real Madrid,that will be their WORST deal ever and a fantastic deal to Man.Utd. 65M for that attention hore?! are u kidding me?!

 

[Mauras]

I didn't understand the question (if for me).

I'm not talking about the deal, I'm talking about the sporting decision itself. Selling a valuable developting player that hasn't even reached his peak because another violent ogre want's to make him the guilty part of his own mistakes is probably one of the silliest sporting decisions I've seen lately. But it is probably a rumor only.

About the deal you are refeering it won't happen since the candidate promising that lost. But I predict that Ronaldo will be sold eventually this year or the next, even if not for the ogre.

 

[bebo]

ManU needs Ronaldo he contributes alot to the squad.After seeing Rooney push Ronaldo,he didn`t even look at his brother.That tells me Rooney is piss and Ronaldo is use to it.Now,let someone else push Ronaldo there will be a Fight!

Ronaldo seems to be Englands escapegoat with the whole Rooney vs. Ronaldo episode..I too is sad for England performances

If I miss a pen I want the world to look at someone else..hint,hint, cough ger...

 

[gerd]

Belgium? Loved SPA. Been there couple weeks ago to attend Portugal - Angola and SPA is one of the prettiest places I've seen and boy do you guys surprised me, saw some very pretty girls around that region .

I must ask my wife what she did in SPA...

 

[gerd]

Ronaldo seems to be Englands escapegoat with the whole Rooney vs. Ronaldo episode

Spot on my friend...
"They" (that awfull press) always need a scapegoat.
1998: Beckham
2002: Seaman
2004: the ref in the match against Portugal
2006: Christiano Ronaldo

The truth is that England does not have enough creative players and the only really creative player is a very dumb football player (Wayne Rooney). Sad, but the thruth. Players like Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham are very good players but they miss that litle spark that can set matches on fire. Maybe Joe Cole has the potential to do it but he's not experienced enough. So England is condemned to a very English way of playing: sterile long balls to a deserving but average player like Crouch (who did play a good world cup). Succesfull English teams like Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal play with more creativity. In these teams the heart and soul are players like Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Carragher, Ashley Cole but the spark of creativity comes from foreign players.
I already mentioned that "good" magazines like World Soccer and Four Four Two had the guts to mention that the average English player is less technically gifted than the average player of other "big" teams.
England is not a big team. As a matter of fact, being eliminated in the quarter finals is a very good result. England has not enough quality to be in the semi-finals of a world cup. Your national team always seems to underachieve because it is over-hyped by your rags.

 

[beachryan]

I will say after watching the Italy Germany match: they certainly have a better touch than what we saw in England Portugal. Passes were so crisp and movement was great, flowing moves through the midfield continued all the way through.

But no one can tell me that Gerrard, Becks, Lampard and Cole are not capabable of playing like that. We've seen them doing those exact things week in week out. As for the creative spark at their teams, who is that at Chelsea if not Lampard and Cole? Certainly not drogba, what Makelele?
Mauras: get your gloating in, that's fine, but please just stop this superiorty thing. You don't see any French fans in here hyping up the fact that portugal haven't beaten them in 31 years. Portugal do tend to win against England, but then look at league football, every team has their 'bogey' clubs. United always seem to have issues with Boro. Does that mean that Boro are a better club? As I've said before, if Portugal were playing football like some other teams (say Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, Argentina, Spain etc) that was lighting up the world cup, then fine, gloat away about them being a great side, but they're only winning but playing crappy, negative football. Maybe that's all we should expect from such an insignificant footballing power as Portugal? That seems to be what you'd have us believe.

 

[IceMan_Bergkamp]

Fantastic post Gerd. You are spot on! :applause:

 

[gerd]

As for the creative spark at their teams, who is that at Chelsea if not Lampard and Cole? Certainly not drogba, what Makelele?

Robben...

The fact that Chelsea bought Ballack and Kalou proves that i'm right.
By the way IMHO Ballack is the same kind of player as Lampard, very very good but he misses that touch of creativity.

 

[beachryan]

Robben...

The fact that Chelsea bought Ballack and Kalou proves that i'm right.
By the way IMHO Ballack is the same kind of player as Lampard, very very good but he misses that touch of creativity.

Sorry, not that I disagree with the Ballack comment, but I was kind of referring to last season, when Robben didn't play well (or much) and Ballack was still in Germany. I do think people overrate English players, but it's hard to ignore the fact that Chelsea are pretty damn good with an English base. And I hate the billionaire bastards

 

[Mauras]

I will say after watching the Italy Germany match: they certainly have a better touch than what we saw in England Portugal. Passes were so crisp and movement was great, flowing moves through the midfield continued all the way through.

Agree 100%.

I think that Italy or Germany have been showing a greater passing ability and accuracy than England or Portugal shown in this tournament (although I don't know Portugal stats in this area, but for example yesterday Italy had over 600 passes and 83% accuracy, that's huge). Anyway Italy is the team that bets more on holding the ball, they only risk breaking through with certainty so that obviously shows in their stats.

 

[Mauras]

I already mentioned that "good" magazines like World Soccer and Four Four Two had the guts to mention that the average English player is less technically gifted than the average player of other "big" teams.
England is not a big team. As a matter of fact, being eliminated in the quarter finals is a very good result. England has not enough quality to be in the semi-finals of a world cup. Your national team always seems to underachieve because it is over-hyped by your rags.

:applause: I'm also a World Soccer regular reader and they really break away from the regular english sporting press.

About your "scapegoat" theory I think English have moved to the next level once they pick an external player as a scapegoat while ignoring the stupid, savage and unjustifiable attitude of their own star, who should load the weight of responsability on his own.

Check out how nuts they can go: www.Ihateronaldo.com

 

[bebo]

that video shows only manU were pushing him away w/o grudging just like a regular EPL game no difference,team mates can push each other Neville,Rio,and Rooney only!anyone else might be a brawl

 

[RuneEdge]

Check out how nuts they can go: www.Ihateronaldo.com

They did the same sort of thing with Beckham so dont think they only blaming Ronaldo cuz he's the opposition.
What Beckham did in 98 was stupid, what Rooney did was (to some people) also stupid. So if the nation had any doubt in Rooney's innocence, I'm sure they'd be after his blood too.

 

[Stan]

What Rooney did was stupid...not to some people, but plain stupid. If i were Ferguson, i'd sell Rooney...at this moment Man Utd can get loads of money for him (although only English club will want him). In a couple of years when everybody knows for sure that he's a nuisance, he will play at WBA or Leeds United for a discount amount.
He's got a huge potential, but he will turn out being useless.

 

[Dermot]

Yes he will turn out to be just another Cruyff or Beckenbaur.

 

[marukomu]

What Rooney did was stupid...not to some people, but plain stupid. If i were Ferguson, i'd sell Rooney...at this moment Man Utd can get loads of money for him (although only English club will want him). In a couple of years when everybody knows for sure that he's a nuisance, he will play at WBA or Leeds United for a discount amount.
He's got a huge potential, but he will turn out being useless.

Eriksen played him in the wrong position. If you play Rooney in a position where he is having to fight for the ball, you're asking for trouble. Give him space by playing him a little deeper and he's excellent (when fully fit).

Thank fuck that you're not Ferguson

 

[PetrovLFC]

Exactly, we played Rooney behind Owen at Euro 2004 and he set it alight. He ha a poor WC in which he had only just recovered from a broken bone, and was played upfront on his own, and now he suddenly become a bad player? wtf

His temper has always been in question. Players are men with testoserone charged bodies. Zidane showed this. The 'stamp' was pure frustration. Rooney was being pulled back by three players before the incident, and was annoyed at every English tackle being punished. And the push incident was clearly him being upset about a 'mate' trying to influence the referees decision. Ronaldo obviously asked for a card to get a reaction like that. If he was just concerned about Carvalho, then Rooney wouldn't of 'pushed him'

 

[gomito#10]

I aim to please "buoooy"!


PS - I doubt Vietnamese root for USA on anything but it was a good efort as a comparison. You'll improve as time goes by.

yes im sure angola has forgiven you for enslaving them... because you football team is so great.... so great that you cant even get your forward service, the difference between portugal and england was friggin penalty kicks, not level of play... you were lucky to beat england, just as if they beat you, they would have been lucky, neither team deserve to win, becaue they were both shit... but someone had too, then once again your listless offense showed up against france, and this time, you were not lucky enough to get to penalties.. so you lost.. deserevedly, mauras you try to come across as not arrogant, but what you dont realize you are incredibly arrogant... much worse then %95 of the english posters on here..

 

[gomito#10]

:applause: I'm also a World Soccer regular reader and they really break away from the regular english sporting press.

About your "scapegoat" theory I think English have moved to the next level once they pick an external player as a scapegoat while ignoring the stupid, savage and unjustifiable attitude of their own star, who should load the weight of responsability on his own.

Check out how nuts they can go: www.Ihateronaldo.com

yet when deco acted like a complete child(holding the ball for time like a moron, cause the ref is too dumb to add time for that) and got red carded, im sure all of the portgues press lambasted him and let him have it.... sure they did...
no they said the ref was to blame, just like ronaldo the whiner did when you lost to france, the ref was fine, maybe the portugese should not whine so much, and play regardless what the ref does, if your team has enough quality , the ref shouldnt matter(as was pointed out to me usa vs italy).. unless you can prove the ref wanted france to win, then you have no other recourse, so ronaldo should shut up and play, and if your press and people are so great, why did they not tell him so? your expecting the english to do the same thing, yet your country is just as guilty for not pointing out the actions of your players, which were just as dumb and as childish as rooney... you act as if you live in this perfect country that fully predicated that you would finish out in the first knock out phase and that your players are all angels who now have a place in heaven, what a load of bullshit that comes out of your fingers man....

 

[Mauras]

They did the same sort of thing with Beckham so dont think they only blaming Ronaldo cuz he's the opposition.
What Beckham did in 98 was stupid, what Rooney did was (to some people) also stupid. So if the nation had any doubt in Rooney's innocence, I'm sure they'd be after his blood too.

I don't see it mate.
I see a huge persecution on Ronaldo and a gigantic KLENEX over the one that really messed things up.

If Rooney didn't go "ZIDANE" Ronaldo could blink for the whole game that it would have no effect whatsoever in the number of english players on the field.

Anyway it's amusing.. and boy does it suit Ronaldo.. the kid has been talking of a move even before the WC.

 

[beachryan]

I don't see it mate.
I see a huge persecution on Ronaldo and a gigantic KLENEX over the one that really messed things up.

If Rooney didn't go "ZIDANE" Ronaldo could blink for the whole game that it would have no effect whatsoever in the number of english players on the field.

Anyway it's amusing.. and boy does it suit Ronaldo.. the kid has been talking of a move even before the WC.

I think you're completely right. Ronaldo was never going to be happy in England, the style of play, the fans, the weather...
But, why did he then sign a 4 year contract extension a few months ago?

And further, even if he decide he wanted to leave, do you condone the way he's gone about it? Winking at a clubmates sending off, so what, to annoy United and force them to sell? How mature is that?

I've said in the past, I've always been a big Ronaldo supporter, and his potential is frightening. But the manner in which he dealt with the situation demonstrates to me a level of arrogance and self-centeredness that should be frightening to any other team. Someone needs to bring him back down to Earth, point out that he's a winger and he can't cross, a forward with no vision, and a diver. If he can sort those things out then he'll be one of the best. But if people keep making out that he's in the right, then he'll never learn.