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PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Putuco Malo said:
That situation is now, but in the past EVEN PES 5 WAS BASHED TO DEATH HERE....
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It wasn't bashed to death here. We've always had (allowed) critical comments and the like and there were always issues that people had with it but "bashed to death" is an exaggeration. Negativity sticks in the mind more than the general acceptance of a good game.

The last few PES games have been off the pace so naturally it's got more negative on here but it just shows that people still care about it. To me the whole point of a fansite or a community like this is to allow both sides to any discussion.

When it degenerates into slagging each other off then we have a problem. Can we all just agree that everyone's Dad is bigger than everyone else's and move on?

I've noticed WENB discussion still playing a major part in here too, which goes against earlier warnings. I'm a patient man but one of us could break at any minute and we'd just be left with Nick in here spamming his smileys. ;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Junka, those were the good times, when the release was patiently waited and when the game hits the I****t you went to took the "blue frog" software to d*****d it LOL
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I'm sure I still have my "slide card" somewhere lol :p
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

What a load of bollocks! People getting really shitty over games that have not been released yet.If it's good buy it! If not don't buy it!How hard is that?This time of the year,no footie on the TV lastyears game has run it's course people going nuts and jaygrim is still an ugly twat..
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

wel we stil have J-league Winning eleven 2009 Club Championship PS2 on 06-08-2009 next month :)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
In Fifa Players have slow reaction times, granted. I prefer it to dribbling gods.

Having 33,000 points online doesn't mean a thing. I've played lots of people who had more points than you and were crap players. In fact, I only play online with known people, because I play almost full manual (semi passing) and that completely changes the experience of the game.

I respect people that prefer a more direct approach and I know Fifa can be fustrating sometimes and has many major flaws. But it's commonly accepted that it makes for a more realistic approach to the game and you can't hide that.

But that's got nothing to do with "angles, space, geometry". Be more detailed when you talk about physics, don't simply throw big words.

How on earth Konami understands geometry, angles and space better than EA? Let's see which geometry and angles can we find in PES:
scripted passing that goes who-knows-where? :R1
scripted shooting that goes who-knows-where? :CURSE:
players going out of position by no reason? :BLINK:
balls that go THROUGH players? :CRY:
players that go THROUGH players? :BORED:
balls that go 40 meters away ALONG the floor without even bouncing? :TD:
scripted trends during matches that suddenly and by no reason make your team crap and unable to do even a 5 meters pass? :CW:

I would like PES to rely a lot more on positioning, GAMER SKILLS and tactics and not solely on turn speed and poor 8 direction scripted-aiming (that sometimes sends the pass more than 40º of where you were aiming to reach a completely different player than the one you thought you were aiming).

But, hey, I don't know, maybe the PES team knows a lot about angles and geometry. Maybe football is played like that, aiming towards something and then finding that the ball goes to the feet of a completely different player. Or going 1 vs 1 against the keeper, aiming to the right, and finding the shot go straight to the keeper's body or the opposite post (only if you're winning). Or do a tap in to an empty net and find the ball go to the spectators in the 100th row. Yeah, maybe that's real geometry and angles and that's why EA didn't understand a thing about it.

On a serious note, I really hope they succeed and make a groundbreaking game, but it's difficult to think so if they don't start changing game fundamentals. They can't be tweaking their engine the rest of their life, they must evolve someday and begin changing the way the game is played.
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I'll address your points and maybe you'll see what I mean.

Angles, space and geometry are not big words, I wonder where you went to school? ;)

33K points means I've played the game enough to cringe at some of the major flaws, which render the game almost unplayable. That comment was not meant to prove that I'm awesome at FIFA09, but that I've played it amply to pass an opinion.

1. Angles - When I receive the ball with a given player, I have a few options depending on where I am, where defenders are and where teammates are. In FIFA you sometimes have a perfect pass on, you have an angle, a right foot instep pass will do just nicely. Only to see it script awkwardly and end up hitting defenders etc. The lack of fluid, responsive controls in FIFA greatly assists with this frustration. Often perfect pasing lanes only appear to be perfect until you actually attempt to pass the ball. Lofted through ball, through ball, x pass, all suffer from this lack of physical capability to pull off unconventional, but certainly plausible and possible passes. Angle is there, you cannot exploit it.

2. Space - The ball that's 70-30 in my favour while defending cannot be won by the attacker. This happens loads in every game, a ball that's 2 meters from my player and 5 meters from the opposing forward is miraculously won by the forward, then you cannot even tackle him (or slide tackle him because of the lag) and often he nips it away. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of football.

3. Geometry - Creating triangles, one-twos where the receiving player doesn't have to receive the first pass, but perhaps playing it off someone else, who then should have a perfect angle for the through ball to the player that originally started the move. This is almost impossible to pull of in FIFA, but try it in WE10 or even PES2009 and you'll see what I mean. Beutiful football, next to impossible.


PES2009 and it's predacessor were flawed games, but play ISS or WE6FE, or WE10 and tell me KCET doesn't understand football, geometry, angles, space and what's needed to accurately recreate football in binary.

EA does not have this track record, even FIFA09 shows a flawed understanding of what it's all about. Let's not mention EA's effortsa during Pro Evo's heyday, it was laughable to compare. So they ripped off most of Konami's groundbreaking ideas (R1 sprint, lofted through ball etc. etc. etc. etc.) but they're not quite there yet.

In regards to ghosts, in FIFA09 you often have the ball securely with your midfielder with pressure, but you use your football brain and think "well, he cannot take it off me if I about face and play keep away with my back to the opponent"....

or so you'd think..not the case. You'll end up somehow giving up your position and having a player poke it away with the greatest of ease. Also the right stick dribbles and jockey button?...they have no place in an intuitive, fluid representation of football. It should be second nature, not some Mortal Kombat combo. Let's not even start with individuality, of which there is very little in FIFA, showing yet another fundamental misunderstanding, Konami had this in 1997 ffs.

I'm not a fanboy mate, if u can be arsed look at my posts regarding the plethora of fundamental flaws found in PES2009, but it still plays a more enjoyable game than FIFA09 (mind you, I play with a gameplay tweak which slows the game)

Neither reaches the heights of old school WE though. PES is way too scripted, FIFA forces a slower pace but the novelty wears off after the underlying flaws are exposed.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Leo said:
On a side note, anyone notice how sterile the working environment over at PES Productions was? I would assume great ideas to be strangled there rather than the opposite. Oh, anyone remembers the trailers to FIFA09 where they showed their studio? It was amazing, great view and flags and club shirts all over the place. Just a tip to Seabass, seems like he needs them.
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ahahahaha oh my God the fanboys are a dime a dozen. The football shirts and dotcom offices mean squat man, I mean EA's Canadian studios were like that for all of te 10 years they played second fiddle to a small KCET team while fanboys such as yourself still kept telling us that FIFA2001 was better than PES.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

pepper63 said:
What a load of bollocks! People getting really shitty over games that have not been released yet.If it's good buy it! If not don't buy it!How hard is that?This time of the year,no footie on the TV lastyears game has run it's course people going nuts and jaygrim is still an ugly twat..
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:SHOCK:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

fanboys..........im sorry but i just dont understand them, pes or fifa, its not a religion, its a bloody game, doesnt get simpler than that, some of the fanboys carry on like they owe konami or EA something, laughable really
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

It's almost as if PES-hating has become an Olympic sport on Evoweb. The prevailing attitude of negativity towards the game is getting ridiculous on these forums. The fact that any positivity is routinely shot down in flames on what is after all one of the major PES forums is quite sad. I'm not advocating fanboyism but a bit more positivity would be appreciated.

I think the problem is that a section of people on here seem to hate PES for the sake of it and will see no positives whatsoever. It's like they want PES to fail, while at the same time hailing Fifa09 as footballing perfection and everything PES should strive to be. It's quite clear that PES and Fifa are two very different games that take different approaches to football, which is a good thing in my opinion. I prefer the PES approach and the last thing I want is for it to imitate Fifa in every way. The sooner some of the Fifa crowd realise this the better.

It is after all only a computer game and not worthy of arguments.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I disagree; both FIFA and PES ended up being seriously flawed games this year, even though the first impressions for everybody were mostly positive. The problem is both EA and KONAMI now have a repuatation of creating rather "shallow" games, if I could put it that way. It seems like after several months of playing either game, people are already starting to hype next year's games. What happened to being able to play PES5 and 6 for hundreds of hours? Just you guys watch, if FIFA does make the new control system a winner, PES will most certainly implement a similar system for PES 2011.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

There is a case for over playing the games when they first come out and thus getting a tad bored.

I do agree that both games have some serious issues and neither is all that, however we can see massive improvements in FIFA and a bigger effort from Konami this term.

PES has that something that keeps you going back for more, although that cannot be said about the last 3. Even though PES next gen attemptshave been below average it still has that something that FIFA lacks.

It may just be nostalgia but pes is more like peeling back an orange, taking time to get into the heart of the game, FIFA is comparable to the best shiny apple that looks so tempting, however, bite into it and you nearly break your teeth.

The problem with PES has been complete complacency,greed and laziness, but it looks different to me this year. FIFA may have also freed up the game with 360 dribbling and better ball physics so the two may be excellent but and it is a big but, if either game has not addressed the glaring issues of the past and have just concentrated on adding new features, they may also still be average at best.

The trouble is that its difficult to appeal to the mass market if you have nothing new to shout about, so some of the underlying issues are cleverly masked over with a fancy new gimmick, gameplay or not.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dr Force said:
PES has that something that keeps you going back for more, although that cannot be said about the last 3.
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I agree about the last 2 installments. Pes6 however i dont find that bad at all. I uninstalled pes2008 after a few weeks and did not even bother buying pes2009. Pes6 i still play. Sure there are things wrong with it, but as a game (not real football or a football simulator) i like it.
Especially with a good patch/kitserver. I'm currently playing it with the history of football patch and will also try out the iss08/09 patch. (yeah yeah i'm a pc player which means i'm in the wrong thread..i know)

It would have been ok for me if they had just improved pes6, adding more animations (headers for example) and perhaps improving on the tactical side of it as well.
The graphics of the last 2 installments have improved, animations have gotten worse and gameplay just doesnt appeal to me.

I'll be doing the same thing as last year. Take a good shot at the demo and then decide whether to buy the game or not.

It is fun watching this thread doing what it has always done before a new pes release : turning into a fifa vs pes fight...gotta love it!
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

i am from origin a PES-player, but since last year fifa 09, because i think it's better then pes 09. Yesterday i read an article on insidegamer.nl (http://www.insidegamer.nl/xbox360/pes2010/impressies/26065) and there is said that pes 10 isn't a major improvement over 09 (based on their playtest). That said, and reading on fifablog:

"Timing has become a key factor in making a pass. For instance, if you press the pass button when the ball is at the edge of the player’s reach then it will be off-course and weak. Finally, to top it off, shooting has been tweaked since the last build and the ball is now truly moving as it should. When you cross the ball, when it takes little deflections on the way towards the goal, even when you’re just moving forward with the ball at your feet and it’s making contact with the ground, the physics are perfect"

i think pes will have again a hard time with fifa 10 comming, because -if the quote is true- the ball physic problems (which are there in fifa 09) will be solved, and for me that was maybe the last reason to step back to pes (where my heart is).

BTW, this is not to enter a fifa-pes fight; just my thoughts for buying or not buying pes10.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I agree with the last few posts.We (customers) shouldn't feel any allegiance to a brand, we just have to hope that both companies release 2 very good football games.If the competition between the 2 is fierce it can only be good for us and so far by the looks of things PES2010 will be better than 2009's (it wasn't that difficult) and FIFA 10 keeps up with the realistic aspect of football and I'm happy with that.
As most people what attracted to this forum 4 years ago was the fact that PES was my favorite game of the 2, I wasn't even playing FIFA but now EA has caught up and is in front of Konami.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

sando said:
i am from origin a PES-player, but since last year fifa 09, because i think it's better then pes 09. Yesterday i read an article on insidegamer.nl (http://www.insidegamer.nl/xbox360/pes2010/impressies/26065) and there is said that pes 10 isn't a major improvement over 09 (based on their playtest). That said, and reading on fifablog:

"Timing has become a key factor in making a pass. For instance, if you press the pass button when the ball is at the edge of the player’s reach then it will be off-course and weak. Finally, to top it off, shooting has been tweaked since the last build and the ball is now truly moving as it should. When you cross the ball, when it takes little deflections on the way towards the goal, even when you’re just moving forward with the ball at your feet and it’s making contact with the ground, the physics are perfect"

i think pes will have again a hard time with fifa 10 comming, because -if the quote is true- the ball physic problems (which are there in fifa 09) will be solved, and for me that was maybe the last reason to step back to pes (where my heart is).

BTW, this is not to enter a fifa-pes fight; just my thoughts for buying or not buying pes10.
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After reading the insidegamer article,its not that bad they are positive about the game but they expect more improvements because this is a early 60% build, but thats what every other article also says about the game.

Im stil going to remain positive,because it can not be wors then PES08 and PES09:PIRATE:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Imagine you wake up EA and Konami are no longer making footie games? Who steps up? I mean who else is even in the market for football games?Nothing happening:TUMBLE:what do we do then? I'm still gutted EA have'nt followed up with a decent new Rugby game and don't ever seem to be going near that sport again.I know this won't happen because football is big business,you would think that maybe media giants SKY would bring out SKY Sports games of every nature which could be a good brand,but apart from the two we love and hate who else is providing us with anything? I'm happy with two good games even if flawed in places.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

To be honest, Namco (if they even exist now, I don't know) could probably fill Konami's place considering they manage as good as they did with football kingdom on their only try. If that game continued I think they could have done something pretty good with it, even if they didn't aim for super simulation, but neither does PES anyway.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

For your concern i have a friend who is doing linguistic testing for EA in Madrid. He tells me at this stage for FIFA is just testing testing and more testing (underpaid work of some 14 hours a day and if u complain too much your 3 months contract will be the first and last one at ea....).
Unfortunately he wouldn't tell me a thing about the game...(i am afraid my contact isn't as chatty as some other contacts...)

So the 50% excuse is just plain crap when it comes to gameplay for both Konami and Fifa.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
It's almost as if PES-hating has become an Olympic sport on Evoweb. The prevailing attitude of negativity towards the game is getting ridiculous on these forums. The fact that any positivity is routinely shot down in flames on what is after all one of the major PES forums is quite sad. I'm not advocating fanboyism but a bit more positivity would be appreciated.

I think the problem is that a section of people on here seem to hate PES for the sake of it and will see no positives whatsoever. It's like they want PES to fail, while at the same time hailing Fifa09 as footballing perfection and everything PES should strive to be. It's quite clear that PES and Fifa are two very different games that take different approaches to football, which is a good thing in my opinion. I prefer the PES approach and the last thing I want is for it to imitate Fifa in every way. The sooner some of the Fifa crowd realise this the better.

It is after all only a computer game and not worthy of arguments.
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Hmmm... Adam rubbing off on you James...;)

It's always the same, go back three years and it was FIFA haters ruling the Evo Web...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Nick Cave said:
Hmmm... Adam rubbing off on you James...;)

It's always the same, go back three years and it was FIFA haters ruling the Evo Web...
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I resent that comment!:)) I hardly post over there any more; I don't like his attitude towards some reasonable questions from decent members.

Nah, it grates on me a bit that some killjoys are writing off PES2010 even before Gamescom, almost as if they don't want to see the game return to old glories. Ok the series has been poor for about three years now but remember Fifa was bad for about 10 years yet they turned things around. I will give Konami the benefit of a doubt that they can do the same. If the game looks shit in Cologne then I'll be the first person to kick up a fuss, but we still have three months until release and until I see this game in motion and the new animations I will remain optimistic. I deserperately want the PES of old to return.
 
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